Maura Larkin's
San Diego Education
Report Blog
Maura Larkins Case
List of School Districts
Public Entities & Press

Why This Website



Castle Park Elem

Law Enforcement



Stutz Artiano Shinoff

Silence is Golden

Schools and Violence

Office Admin Hearings

Larkins OAH Hearing
Education Reform
Report Website
Robin Donlan deposition
Part 3
November 4, 2004   
    EXHIBITS:                                                            PAGE

    1  One-page handwritten notes                           28
    2  Copy of a Star News article
        August 20, 2004, two pages                              36
    3  One-page memo, February 25, 2002               42
    4  Two-page bilingual flier                                    73
    5  Condensed transcript, deposition
        of Gretchen Donndelinger,
        September 10, 2002                                         124
Robin Donlan was supported by attorneys
Deborah Garvin,
Kelly Angell, and
Michael Hersh

Link to Part 1
Part 2
Rick Werlin deposition

     ...BY MS. LARKINS:

     ...Q.  Would you look at Page 80, Line 19.  Could you

   20     read the question there that starts on Line 19 and goes

   21     to Line 21.

   22          A.  "Did Robin Colls ever share with you

   23     any kind of information concerning a police report

   24     allegedly, somehow, involving Maura Larkins?"

   25          Q.  And could you please read the answer starting on


    1     Page -- Line 22 and continuing on to the next page.

    2          A.  "Actually that did come up at some point when

    3     she was talking, but she herself said, you know, you

    4     don't want to hear anything about that, and I'm not going

    5     to tell you.  I know that there is something, but I have

    6     no clue what it is."

    7          Q.  And the first line, please, on Page 81.

    8          A.  "She didn't want me to know."

    9          Q.  Was there ever something about a police report

   10     that you didn't want Gretchen Donndelinger to know?

   11          A.  Not to my recollection, no.

   12          Q.  Okay.  So according to your recollection,

   13     Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about you here is

   14     false?

   15          A.  As far as I recall.

   16          Q.  Okay.  Did your brother ever talk to you during

   17     the year 2000 about my having been arrested?

   18              MR. GARVIN:  Vague and ambiguous.

   19              THE WITNESS:  No.

   20     BY MS. LARKINS:

   21          Q.  Okay.  Would you please read the question on

   22     Line 2 of Page 81.

   23          A.  "So she said there's something in the police

   24     report?"

   25          Q.  And could you read Line 3?


    1          A.  "It was a personal thing."

    2          Q.  Could you read Lines 4 and 5 which are another

    3     question.

    4          A.  "Involving something that was a non-school

    5     matter but that Robin Colls was aware of?

    6              Uh-huh.

    7              Was that a yes?"

    8              Do I continue?

    9          Q.  Okay.  Now that you have read almost half a page

   10     of Gretchen Donndelinger's testimony about a conversation

   11     she claims to have had with you, are you getting any

   12     memories at all of this conversation?

   13          A.  No, none whatsoever.

   14          Q.  Okay.  Do you have any explanation for why

   15     Gretchen Donndelinger would have said that you talked

   16     about a police report?

   17              MS. ANGELL:  Objection.  Calls for speculation.

   18              You don't guess in a deposition, but if you have

   19     information, if she told you something or if you have

   20     knowledge, then you express it.

   21              MR. HERSH:  Did she testify that there was a

   22     police record or was that the question about a police

   23     record?  Since I don't have it.

   24              MS. ANGELL:  The question at Page 80, Line 19

   25     was:  "Did Robin Colls ever share with you any kind of


    1     information concerning a police report allegedly,

    2     somehow, involving Maura Larkins?"  So it was concerning

    3     a police report allegedly, somehow, involving Maura

    4     Larkins.

    5              MR. HERSH:  Okay.

    6              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.

    7          Q.  Well, I'm going to try help jog your memory

    8     here.  So could you read the question that was asked of

    9     Gretchen Donndelinger that is recorded here on Line 10 on

   10     Page 81.

   11          A.  "Was this in a face-to-face conversation with

   12     Robin Colls?"

   13          Q.  And what was Gretchen's answer?

   14          A.  "Yes."

   15          Q.  Okay.  You don't remember any face-to-face

   16     conversation with Gretchen Donndelinger about a police

   17     report that allegedly somehow involved me?

   18          A.  No, I don't.

   19          Q.  Okay.  Do you have any experience of Gretchen

   20     Donndelinger having hallucinations?

   21          A.  No.  Personally, no.

   22          Q.  Okay.  But you heard -- her testimony here is

   23     false; is that your testimony?

   24          A.  I don't have any recollection of that event.

   25          Q.  Could this conversation have had happened and


    1     you might have forgotten it?

    2          A.  I doubt that.

    3          Q.  So you're quite sure this conversation never

    4     took place?

    5          A.  I don't recall it.

    6          Q.  Okay.  Could you please turn to the next -- you

    7     know, the next page, and then at the top of the next page

    8     is condensed Page 82.  Oh, actually -- I'm sorry.

    9              You know, it won't make any sense unless we

   10     finish reading 81.  Could you read Line 20 on 81.

   11          A.  "It occurred in the 1999-2000 school year."

   12          Q.  Then could you read the question --

   13          A.  "But you found out about it in which year?"

   14          Q.  And could you read the answer.

   15          A.  "There was an incident this is referring, to my

   16     belief.  They had a problem with a staff member the year

   17     before and -- that's what I understood this to mean

   18     anyway."

   19              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  Okay.  I'd like to go on

   20     break because I need to copy a document.

   21              THE WITNESS:  She has to leave anyway, don't

   22     you?

   23              MS. GARVIN:  I'm sorry?

   24              MS. LARKINS:  Do you want to continue or do you

   25     want to end this session now?  Because what I would do


    1     next is I would go on break and I would copy this

    2     document.

    3              MS. GARVIN:  Let me see that.

    4              Does this involve Michael Carlson?

    5              MS. LARKINS:  This involves Line 25 of Page 81

    6     of the deposition that we are discussing.

    7              MS. GARVIN:  This is Exhibit 19 to --

    8              MS. LARKINS:  Yes.

    9              MS GARVIN:  -- the deposition.

   10              MS. LARKINS:  Actually what Elizabeth Schulman

   11     did was she had exhibits for the deposition and then she

   12     kept the same numbers when she prepared this exhibit book

   13     for the administrative hearing.

   14              MS. GARVIN:  Go ahead and finish this up.

   15              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  I need to go on break to

   16     make a copy.

   17             VIDEOGRAPHER:  Off the record at 5:08.

   18             (Recess taken.)

   19              VIDEOGRAPHER:  Back on the record at 5:11.

   20              MS. LARKINS:  Did you want to say something?

   21              MS. GARVIN:  It's your deposition.

   22              MS. LARKINS:  I am willing to conclude this

   23     session of this deposition now.  I believe that

   24     Ms. Garvin supports that idea.  And Mr. Hersh will not

   25     object.  So I think it's up to you, Ms. Angell.


    1              MS. ANGELL:  I have no problem with it.  I'm

    2     thinking about possible dates.  Maybe sometime during the

    3     week of November 13th -- sorry -- November 15th, based on

    4     Ms. Donlan -- I don't know if you have any testing of

    5     children going on, but if maybe we could consider that

    6     week.

    7              MS. GARVIN:  I know that on the 17th is the

deposition of the sheriff's department is already

    9     scheduled.

   10              MS. ANGELL:  So maybe we should just go off and

   11     then talk about possible scheduling dates.

   12              VIDEOGRAPHER:  Okay?

   13              MS. LARKINS:  Wait a minute.

   14              MS. ANGELL:  So yeah.

   15              MR. HERSH:  So the Carlson deposition is off on

   16     the 15th?

   17              MS. LARKINS:  Yeah

   18              MR. HERSH:  We are off the record now?

   19              VIDEOGRAPHER:  No.  We are still on.

   20              MS. LARKINS:  It's on the 17th?

   21              MS. ANGELL:  Not Carlson.  I mean the sheriff.

   22              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  The sheriff is the 17th and

   23     Carlson's is 23rd?

   24              MS. GARVIN:  Yes.

   25              MR. HERSH:  At what time?


    1              MS GARVIN:  1:00 o'clock.

    2              MS. LARKINS:  Is it 1:00 o'clock?  I probably

    3     have that written down.

    4             MS. GARVIN:  Here.

    5              MS. LARKINS:  1:00 o'clock, Carlson.

    6             MS. GARVIN:  Are we going off the record and

    7     concluding the depo, going off the record now?

    8              MS. LARKINS:  Can we agree on the 15th?

    9              MS. ANGELL:  I need to go check my calendar at

   10     the office, but I'd like to aim for that week.

   11              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  That's fine.

   12              Then I guess we can conclude here for this

   13     session.

   14              Do we need to say all that stuff about what to

   15     do with the transcript?

   16              MS. ANGELL:  Yes.

   17              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  Someone else want to do it?

   18     Do you want me to try?

   19              Oh, hey.  Darn it.  I don't have a deposition

   20     with me.  Usually I have someone else's deposition and I

   21     can read it.

   22              MS. GARVIN:  You have that one, the Donndelinger

   23     one.

   24              MS. LARKINS:  Let's see what it says.  They were

   25     a lot more casual on this one.


    1              MS GARVIN:  Are we going to have the witness

    2     review it now or wait until it's complete to review all

    3     of the transcript at the same time?

    4              MS. LARKINS:  Why don't we let her review this

    5     part.

    6              MS. GARVIN:  And so we need to know how long it

    7     would take Ms. Donlan to review her transcript.

    8              MS. ANGELL:  Well, it depends on when she gets

    9     it, I would assume.  So customary we are talking a month

   10     to review.  I don't know how long it's going -- I don't

   11     know if you're going to expedite the transcript or what.

   12     I don't know what your plan is.

   13              MS. LARKINS:  I don't think we need to expedite

   14     it, but -- a whole month she needs to review it?

   15              MS. ANGELL:  That's the usual.  People who are

   16     working --

   17              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.

   18              MS. ANGELL:  It's normal.

   19              So since you're apparently not going to do a

   20     stipulation, I'll propose the following stipulation:

   21     That the court reporter be relieved from her duties under

   22     the code as well as the videographer be relieved from his

   23     duties under code, and that counsel have agreed on the

   24     record to continue this deposition to its second volume

   25     at a mutually agreed-upon date, hopefully during


    1     November, but counsel will confer on that matter.

    2              And we also stipulate that the original of this

    3     transcript, including a condensed and word index, will be

    4     forwarded to Ms. Donlan for her review and signature;

    5     that a postage-paid envelope will be -- excuse me.  I'm

    6     going to take that back.  You're going to send it me to

    7     be forwarded to Ms. Donlan, and I'll take care of the

    8     envelope.

    9              And that from the time -- I will forward it to

   10     Ms. Donlan for her review and signature and any

   11     corrections that are necessary.  And from the time

   12     Ms. Donlan receives the transcript, she'll have 30 days

   13     to make her changes and sign it.  If the changes are not

   14     made and the signature not done within that 30 days, it

   15     will be deemed signed as is.

   16              MS. LARKINS:  Can I interrupt a moment?

   17              I'm trying to figure out why you wanted me to

   18     sign my deposition in one week and yet hers would be a

   19     month.

   20              MS. ANGELL:  Because we're going to continue

   21     your deposition.  Your deposition is not done, but that

   22     doesn't really have anything to do with hers.  We were

   23     talking -- I can't remember if we were talking about -- I

   24     explained it on the record at the time.  I know that

   25     there was a discussion of it and we explained on it the


    1     record at the time.  So if you want to go back and look

    2     at your transcript -- if you want to propose the

    3     stipulation, I don't care.  Go ahead.  You just weren't

    4     doing it.

    5              MS. LARKINS:  You're right.  I'm a crummy

    6     lawyer.  I have stipulated to that on other occasions.

    7              MS. ANGELL:  So my proposed stipulation is then

    8     stricken.  Go ahead.

    9              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  I did not agree that it be

   10     stricken.

   11              I want to talk about how long it takes her to

   12     sign it, and I would like you to explain --

   13              MS. GARVIN:  I'll agree to whatever stipulation

   14     you eventually are able to work out.

   15              MR. HERSH:  I stipulate that Ms. Garvin pay my

   16     salary for the day.

   17              MS. LARKINS:  Two points.

   18             (Ms. Garvin not present.)

   19              MS. LARKINS:  I cannot for the life of me figure

   20     out why there is such a huge difference between my

   21     deposition and Ms. Donlan's deposition.

   22              MS. ANGELL:  Well, for one thing, you're not

   23     employed, to my knowledge, and she has a full-time job.

   24     For the second thing, you're a party to this litigation;

   25     you're bringing the litigation, and we knew that your


    1     deposition was going to continue in multiple parts, and I

    2     asked you if that was enough time for you and you said

    3     that it was.

    4              MS. LARKINS:  I agree.  I think one month is too

    5     long for Ms. Donlan.

    6              MS. ANGELL:  Well, you can think that.

    7              How long do you need?  This is going to be this

    8     thick (indicating).

    9              THE WITNESS:  Yeah.  And I don't -- I want to be

   10     thorough before I sign it.

   11              MS. ANGELL:  It also depends on when she gets

   12     it.  Do you have any travel that is going to take you out

   13     of town?  Normally it takes several weeks for these

   14     things to be produced.

   15              THE WITNESS:  No.  I don't have any plans

   16     currently.

   17              MS. ANGELL:  All right.  So you're not planning

   18     to leave town between now and December 31?

   19              THE WITNESS:  No.

   20              MS. ANGELL:  Okay.  So how long do you think

   21     that you'll need to -- the transcript looks like a

   22     screenplay or like a movie script, you know, question,

   23     answer, just like this

   24              THE WITNESS:  Comb-bound, correct?

   25              MS. ANGELL:  Usually.  So it's basically going


    1     to look like this, so --

    2              THE WITNESS:  But thicker.

    3              MS. ANGELL:  Each page is on its own.

    4              THE WITNESS:  Well, I'll only be able to read at

    5     night, along with everything else I do in the evenings.

    6              MS. ANGELL:  Like grade papers --

    7              THE WITNESS:  Grade papers, make lesson plans,

    8     take care of my husband, you know.

    9              MS. LARKINS:  It would be much easier if all you

   10     had to do was fight off four huge law firms.

   11              THE WITNESS:  I mean I don't want to feel like

   12     I'm rushed in going through it.

   13              MS. ANGELL:  How long do you think you need?

   14     It's probably going to be several hundred pages, double

   15     spaced.

   16              THE WITNESS:  At least three to four weeks, I

   17     would think.

   18              MS. LARKINS:  How about three weeks?

   19              MS. ANGELL:  All right.  So three weeks from the

   20     time that she receives it.

   21              Now, do you want to make the stipulation or do

   22     you want me to put it on?  I don't approve when you

   23     strike things; you don't approve when I strike my own


   25              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  So it really is stricken?


    1              MS. ANGELL:  When you strike you own questions,

    2     I don't go back and -- you know, I have control over what

    3     I say and you have control over what you say.

    4              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  I'm sorry.  I didn't --

    5              MS. ANGELL:  Do you want me to put it on or do

    6     you prefer to do it yourself?  I'm trying to help you out

    7     here because you don't seem to know what you're doing.

    8              MS. LARKINS:  That's right.  I don't know what

    9     I'm doing, but I will tell what you I'll do.  I'll try.

   10     Okay.

   11              Now, we still have, I believe -- I don't think

   12     it was stricken when Ms. Garvin asked whether or not we

   13     would have this session, this volume, signed, so that's

   14     still in.

   15              Ms. Donlan is going to read and sign this volume

   16     of it without regard to whenever we continue the

   17     deposition.  And the deposition is going to be delivered

   18     to Kelly Angell when the court reporter has it ready.

   19              MS. ANGELL:  The original of the deposition.

   20              MS. LARKINS:  Thank you.

   21              MS. ANGELL:  With the documents that I

   22     previously listed.

   23              MS. LARKINS:  Yes.  I'm quite sure our court

   24     reporter was planning on doing that.

   25              Then you will provide it to Ms. Donlan, and from


    1     the time that you provide it, Ms. Donlan will have three

    2     weeks to sign it.  And if she doesn't sign it, a

    3     certified copy will be acceptable as -- the same as an

    4     original.  And, in fact, a certified copy will be

    5     acceptable in lieu of an original whether she signs it or

    6     not.  But if she doesn't sign it within three weeks, then

    7     it will be considered signed and accepted in the state

    8     that it was in when prepared by the court reporter.

    9              Let's see.  Is there anything else?  I don't

   10     think they did all this stuff here.  Oh, yeah, they did.

   11              MS. ANGELL:  Could I ask the court reporter --

   12     well, I might as well ask you while we are all here.  I

   13     don't know if it's possible to go back and mark before

   14     you print everything out the standing objections.  If

   15     that is possible to mark it in the transcript, if you

   16     would, that would be great.

   17             THE REPORTER:  I will mark it -- I'll put

   18     "record marked at the request of Ms. Angell," and I will

   19     mark where you have stated your standing objections.

   20              MS. ANGELL:  Yeah.  There was a stipulation as

   21     to all -- as to relevance objections being made for

   22     everything.  That is particularly what I'm interested in.

   23              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  I can't think of anything

   24     else to stipulate.  If you want anything else

   25     stipulated --


    1              MS. ANGELL:  A facsimile copy of signature will

    2     be deemed sufficient evidence of Ms. Donlan's signature

    3     on the deposition for all purposes.  Ms. Donlan's counsel

    4     will retain the original copy and produce it upon timely

    5     request.  However, if the original is not available, a

    6     certified copy will be -- we agree that the certified

    7     copy is to be used for all purposes.

    8              Anything else?

    9              MR. HERSH:  Not that I can think of.

   10              VIDEOGRAPHER:  Is that it?  This concludes

   11     Volume I --

   12              MS. ANGELL:  Wait a minute.  Everybody didn't

   13     stipulate.

   14              MS. LARKINS:  I stipulate.

   15              MR. HERSH:  I stipulate.

   16              VIDEOGRAPHER:  This concludes --

   17              MS. ANGELL:  What is happening with the

   18     exhibits?

   19             THE REPORTER:  I have 1 through 5.  They will be

   20     attached to the copies.

   21              MS. ANGELL:  So are those exhibits coming back

   22     to the next volume of the deposition?

   23              MS. LARKINS:  Yes.

   24              MS. ANGELL:  So the court reporter needs --

   25     you're going to have the same court reporter and she's


    1     going to bring those same exhibits back to the next depo

    2     or what?

    3              THE REPORTER:  I can leave a set here in the

    4     office, and they will be here.  That's not a problem.  I

    5     can make a set here or I can start an exhibit binder so

    6     that we can mark them continuously, but I'll keep a

    7     working copy here in the office so that they will be here

    8     and they will also be attached to Volume I.

    9              MS. LARKINS:  Okay.  Sounds good.

   10             VIDEOGRAPHER:  Ready to go off?

   11              MS. LARKINS:  Yes.

   12              VIDEOGRAPHER:  This concludes Volume 1 of the

   13     deposition of Robin Donlan.  Off the record at 5:24.
The entire content of the
testimony on this page
was removed by a
hacker at some unknown
time, and replaced on
April 12, 2010.
Subpoena for Santa Barbara
Sheriff's documents (related site)
Education Report
San Diego
Depostion of Principal of
Castle Park Elementary
September 10, 2002

Page 80 line 19

 Did Robin Colls
[AKA Robin Donlan] ever
share with you any kind of
information concerning a
police report allegedly,
somehow, involving Maura

A.        Actually, that did
come up at some point
when she [Robin
talking, but she, herself,
said, you know, you don’t
want to hear anything
 And I’m not going to
tell you.  I know that
there is something, but I
have no clue what it is.  
She didn’t want me to
[Robin didn't want
Gretchen to know; Robin
seems to be
demonstrating awareness
of guilt.]

So she said there’s
something in the police

A. It was a personal thing.

Involving something
that was a non-school
matter but that Robin
Colls was
aware of?

A.  Uh-huh.

Was that a yes?

A.  Yes, I do recall
hearing something like
I have no details

Q.  Was this in a face-to-
face conversation with
Robin Colls?

A.  Yes.

Q.  And what year was

A.  That was the year, I
think she told me about
that this year, the year—

Q.  2002?

A.  Two—1999, 2000
school year.  It was the
year before.

Q.  That this occurred?

It occurred in the
1999, 2000 school year.  

Q.  But you found out
about it in which year.

A.  There was an incident
that this is referring to in
my belief.  They had a
problem with a staff
member the year before
and—that’s what I
understood this to
mean anyway.

Q.  Exhibit 19?  [

Page 82 lines 1-25:

A.  Yes.  It happened in
1999, September.  
[actually, 2000,
It was like the first week
back from
 That’s when
that happened, and, I
believe, that’s when
Robin told me
that there was an
incident, there was a
personal, a side incident,
but she said
you don’t want to know
about it
[because it would
be a crime to obtain this
information?].  And I said
no, it’s personal, doesn’t
have anything to do with
school, I don’t want to

And she told you it
involved some sort of
police report or law

A.        I think so, yes.

Q.        Did you ask her
how she knew that?

A.        Uh-uh.

Q.        No?

A.        That was it.  That’s
all she said.  She said I
have this thing going on
with her on the side.  
Outside of school.  
don’t want to know about

Q.        Was it an
indication that she had it
going on, that it was
something personal?

A.        It was a personal
issue outside of school
going on with Maura and
somehow, and I don’t
know if it was her or her
family or—but that was
it.  That’s all she said.

Q.        Did Ms. Colls,
rather, leave you with the
impression that it was
on—that somehow,
Colls was actually
involved in this personal

A.        That she or her
, you know, she
knows about it or it was—
something else going on
outside of school,

Page 83, lines 1-8:

[A. contd.]  
Something to
do with Robin and or her
and Maura.  I don’t
know even why I
remember that.  
Somehow somebody told
me, and I think it was

Q.        It had something
to do with either Robin or
a family member of Robin’

A.  Yeah.  I think if it was
actually Robin I probably
would have wanted to
just natural
curiosity.  I don’t think it
was against her.  
I think
it was
a family member.
Gretchen Donndelinger
September 2002

This deposition of the
principal of Castle Park
Elementary was  taken for
Office of
Administrative Hearings
(OAH) hearing
, but never
used by Maura Larkins'
attorney Elizabeth
CVESD attorney Mark
Bresee listened to this and
other depositions, and
then continued to work to
hide multiple illegal
actions.  Board members
and administrators of
CVESD and other districts
rely on such attorneys to
help them advance their
careers while violating the